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Hello.

I'm not sure if this is the forum for this or if so this is the right board for it, but I'm getting very tired now.

My name is Jonas, I'm a 38 year old Norwegian guy. I've had mental problems for at least 20 years now and it has gradually become worse and worse. I have no clue about what magicks is really about, but I've heard a lot of things in my head over the years. I would like to tell you a little about what has happened to me over the years. Here goes...

Not that it neccesarily has anything to do with it, but when I was a young child I have had a lot of bad nightmares and sometimes waking sort of visions as well. I have always had a feeling that people did not like me and looking back I can remember having a rather erratic personality, almost out of my control at times. I dropped out of school because of this and consentration problems after 10 years and got a job in a demolition firm. (not explosives, but general interior stripping of houses) I also fell in with a crowd that used various illegal drugs and I also used them. After a while I spoke out for one of the guys in that crowd and got him a job at the firm. About a year later (this was in 94-95 something like that) I was working at a site and the same guy I had helped getting the job bumped into me while walking past me. Suddenly I felt a change in my mind right then and there. A feeling of paranoia about all the people I worked with. This was the real beginning of my problems. After that I began getting what I now would describe as "Rogue Thoughts", that made me withdraw from my "friends". It gradually got worse until about 2001. (I was still using drugs) At that time I was living by my self in a very small apartment. I was on welfare having quit my job because of the "Rogue Thoughts". That is when I started hearing them speak for the first time. Not audible voices, but voices using my inner voice against me. Shortly thereafter I flipped out completly and had to move back in with my parents. In about 2003 I started seeing a shrink, and it calmed down a bit by 2006. I tried to move again, but this only resulted in me getting back on drugs and in early 2007 I lost completly lost control of my innner voice and minds eye. Since then my life has been a slow and steady slide downwards with almost every day being filled with what I can only describe as mental torture. I'm getting very exhausted these days. I was wondering if it could really hurt to throw this out there.

If someone could maybe at least point me in the right direction I might give my soul some peace and quiet for a while. At this point anything would be helpful. -Jonas (I have quit the drugs now)

Stop doing drugs, get yourself into rehab.
Get in contact with the psychiatric care.
You don't need the occult, you need help.

Hmm...

I guess that is kind of what I expected for an answer anyway. In my "rant" I failed to mention that I was committed to an institution after my ordeal in 2007. That is when I lost my inner voice and minds eye after battling them for months. (Not that I think I had any chance of winning over them in the first place) Soon after they booted me out of there. I don't think ganja is a typical hardcore rehab drug either though, but I did not specify.

Anyway I am glad my yesterday self bothered to post here. I think I was very brave of him. Shrinks can only fool you back to reality if you don't know enough about it. I don't care much for the "science" version of "help" anymore.

I don't trust shrinks that much. Thank you for your swift reply.

I'm probably jumping the gun here, since very few people have seen the post, but does anyone have any real advice.

No offence intended. (Right?) [grump]

SchizophrenicLibra wrote:Hmm...

I guess that is kind of what I expected for an answer anyway. In my "rant" I failed to mention that I was committed to an institution after my ordeal in 2007. That is when I lost my inner voice and minds eye after battling them for months. (Not that I think I had any chance of winning over them in the first place) Soon after they booted me out of there. I don't think ganja is a typical hardcore rehab drug either though, but I did not specify.

Anyway I am glad my yesterday self bothered to post here. I think I was very brave of him. Shrinks can only fool you back to reality if you don't know enough about it. I don't care much for the "science" version of "help" anymore.

I don't trust shrinks that much. Thank you for your swift reply.

If you don't like science, you won't have much help from the occult since it's based on science. The occult is not the same as paranormal or supernatural.

What you are looking for are some sort of alternative treatment, maybe you can find some fat old hippie to "heal" you with crystals for 600 Norska kronor i timmen. Ellers er det kanskje noen tispe i landsbyen som kan lur i dig ein hjemmelagde potion.

To be honest (and maybe a bit more friendly): Serious occult practice is one of the hardest things you can do. It puts a lot of mental and physical pressure on the practitioners. You need to be clean, you need to eat healthy, and you need to have your thoughts in order.
But from your first post; it sounds like you have a mental problem. And it would be irresponsible for anybody on this forum to tell you anything else then to go and seek professional help.
If you are afraid of psychiatrist or hospitals you're nowhere ready to deal with what happens with the brain when you start to pry it open.

What is being cruel to the unfortunate do for you "Benefactor" here in your little pond.

You can keep you closeminded advice to yourself.

Maybe someone nicer has some real advice. When you have stopped flapping your pompous lips (So to speak)

I would like you not to address me again. I did not come here to pick a fight.

SchizophrenicLibra wrote:What is being cruel to the unfortunate do for you "Benefactor" here in your little pond.
You can keep you closeminded advice to yourself.
Maybe someone nicer has some real advice. When you have stopped flapping your pompous lips (So to speak)
I would like you not to address me again. I did not come here to pick a fight.

It's not being cruel, it's being honest.
Truth hurts sometimes.

You know you were cruel.
You seem to embrace it.
To each their own.
I will not address you again

Hello Spida and thank you for your reply [happy]

I also like theories. I'd like to hear some of yours if you have the time.

I'll look for your posts and around the forum in general. Maybe I should have done that in the first place. [happy]

You came to the forum asking for advice and Desecrated gave it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its invalid.

Anyway, if you haven't already, get on a proper diet and exercise program. Maybe include some physical Yoga. You'd be surprised how much just those two things can help. As far as occult practices go, you won't find a quick fix - there's just no such thing and it's something that must be accepted. If you are serious about becoming a part of the occult, do your homework before getting started. There are loads of resources on this site you can utilize.

Here's a link to some primer type meditations http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025

You could also try some various herbs. Kava is for anxiety, St. John's Wort for depression, and Chamomile/Lavender for sleep - my personal favorites for most things.

Hello findingtruth

I understand know it was shortsighted of me to think there is a quick fix. I'm not sure I did though. I'm not looking to become a practicioner in any way because I know it would be impossible for me, not being able to concentrate very well and contantly forgetting things.

All I really asked was if anyone had any advice for me. Maybe I thought that people on this forum could give me some kind of levity. Strangely enough my voices have become very quiet since I wrote the first post, only grumbling hateful stuff in the background up until now at least.

I do although think that it was at least partly clear that I have quit the drugs for 10 years.

My psyhcologist told me that I had so much insight (go figure) that I would not benefit from going there anymore. I do take medication and I know that they work.

I may have been hasty and gruff in my first response, but I think I was paid in kind for that.

I thank you for your intrest and advice, but for instance meditation would prove difficult at best when hardly having control over ones own thoughts.

It might have been that I imagined maybe to get some more insight from here rather than actually learning occult practice or anything. If these voices I hear are in fact spirits, they came to me why should I try to seek them out.

I do agree with Desecrated, but I assumed that because you posted in an occult forum, you were looking for an occult solution to this.
Hell, try a LBRP, maybe any negative energies you have accumulated by whatever sickness you have could be alleviated by this. By what you are telling me about how you feel about the voices in your head, you are not healed and if your counselor told you not to go to them, you need to find a new one. Healing is a process, and the more you talk with people who have studied how to heal others mentally, the better your chances are for real healing.
I do recommend meditation as Finding truth said earlier, and if you can't meditate for 30 minutes at first, start with 30 seconds. Only thoughts about dogs for a starter. Then you can have only thoughts about golden retrievers. Then go from there. I have a really bad case of ADHD, so meditating was literally torture the first few months I tried it. It seemed like a waste of time and I could be using that time to run or clean or watch tv or read... but meditation is about building yourself up, and in my non- professional opinion, that seems like what you might be needing right now. I know I need it! lots and lots and lots of it. Good luck.

In a kind of addition to Strange, meditation isn't easy for anyone at first. No one is able to focus or concentrate or control their thoughts. Obviously, it might be a little harder in your case, but the whole point is to learn to manage it. You don't have to start off focused or with flawless concentration. Meditation isn't about perfection, it's a learning exercise to build those very things. But, you mentioned that you weren't ready for a lifelong commitment so this probably isn't the solution for you. If you change your mind, there's tons of tools here at your disposal.

Hi Jonas, first of all please do not call people closeminded , etc just because you do not like their advice.

This is the route I would take if I were you. I would read this book http://www.rethinkingmadness.com
Then read Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics. Read the theory section very well, maybe a few times. Especially the parts concerning equilibrium. Then read step 1, 2, 3. Reread step 1. Concentrate on step 1. Meditate everyday go through the exercises until you perfected them. It may take you a few days or it may take you a few years, doesn't matter. Make the meditation your daily practice throughout your whole life. Do not complicate,ignore things like mind's eye, inner voice etc for now. Everything is simple just meditate and take control of your negative sides one by one.

I think Rockdemon has given the most useful advice here and while I'm not currently familiar with the book he recommended it looks interesting and I will be reading it myself. There are articles on the site too that I think may make for some interesting and useful reading too.

Beware of mindfulness and meditation as these methods can worsen or increase symptoms in some psychiatric conditions, especially those where psychotic episodes are a possibility.

Nahemah wrote:Beware of mindfulness and meditation as these methods can worsen or increase symptoms in some psychiatric conditions, especially those where psychotic episodes are a possibility.

Would you please share some information about this? I always was under the impression that psychological problems arise because of lack of mindfulness.

Sure.

The negative and harmful effects have been played down considerably, unfortunately, as it would harm the profits of the gurus who promote this as a new panacea for all Western ills.

Also, 'classical' meditation does not work well for everyone either. I personally don't engage with it, mostly due to the way it worsens my ptsd symptoms. I let my mind go where it wills, a-wandering, when I need to be calm or de-stress. I wouldn't recommend this to everyone though, it does wonders for me, but may be awful for another person who has a different mindset from me.

Meditation and mindfulness can and do work for certain people, no doubt on that (here comes the but...) however, nether is a catch all or cover all for everyone and many folk do not understand that just because it works for them, it may not work for those who are neurologically atypical or who suffer from certain medical or mental health issues and/ or conditions.

I've just picked out a couple of pertinent points from one article, a psychology one, as that is what you enquired about above. Psychiatric contra- indications can be more serious, however.

I will return later with more information, as this is a lazy post atm, from just one source, but it does reference at least one academic paper and has several qualified professionals giving their views.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... s-practice

...A core aspect of practicing mindfulness is to attempt a withdrawal from the streams of thought that have to do with current challenges of every form, whether they have to do with difficulties with a particular relationship or the tasks that one has to perform on that day. Unfortunately, such a withdrawal supports our natural, hard-wired tendency to be “cognitive misers” leading mindfulness practitioners to use the practice as a means of escape from having to think about difficult problems and arrive at reasonable solutions. Psychiatrist David Brendel summarizes this danger of mindfulness practice as follows:

“Some people use mindfulness strategies to avoid critical thinking tasks. I’ve worked with clients who, instead of rationally thinking through a career challenge or ethical dilemma, prefer to disconnect from their challenges and retreat into a meditative mindset.”

...These included reports of depersonalization (feeling detached from one’s mental processes or body), psychosis (loss of contact with reality) with delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech, feelings of anxiety, an increased risk of seizures, loss of appetite, and insomnia. The authors especially cautioned vulnerable people such as those with PTSD to be particularly careful when undertaking mindfulness practice. Their main point was that participants should be screened carefully for their suitability before undertaking this practice, and its teachers should be properly trained and supervised....

We do sometimes get folk coming here who've experienced psychotic breaks through practices which they should not have rushed into, with classic forms of meditation and chakra work seeming to be the most prevalent for this recently, but there have been other causes too.

More later.

Nahemah wrote:Sure.

The negative and harmful effects have been played down considerably, unfortunately, as it would harm the profits of the gurus who promote this as a new panacea for all Western ills.

Also, 'classical' meditation does not work well for everyone either. I personally don't engage with it, mostly due to the way it worsens my ptsd symptoms. I let my mind go where it wills, a-wandering, when I need to be calm or de-stress. I wouldn't recommend this to everyone though, it does wonders for me, but may be awful for another person who has a different mindset from me.

Meditation and mindfulness can and do work for certain people, no doubt on that (here comes the but...) however, nether is a catch all or cover all for everyone and many folk do not understand that just because it works for them, it may not work for those who are neurologically atypical or who suffer from certain medical or mental health issues and/ or conditions.

I've just picked out a couple of pertinent points from one article, a psychology one, as that is what you enquired about above. Psychiatric contra- indications can be more serious, however.

I will return later with more information, as this is a lazy post atm, from just one source, but it does reference at least one academic paper and has several qualified professionals giving their views.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... s-practice

...A core aspect of practicing mindfulness is to attempt a withdrawal from the streams of thought that have to do with current challenges of every form, whether they have to do with difficulties with a particular relationship or the tasks that one has to perform on that day. Unfortunately, such a withdrawal supports our natural, hard-wired tendency to be “cognitive misers” leading mindfulness practitioners to use the practice as a means of escape from having to think about difficult problems and arrive at reasonable solutions. Psychiatrist David Brendel summarizes this danger of mindfulness practice as follows:

“Some people use mindfulness strategies to avoid critical thinking tasks. I’ve worked with clients who, instead of rationally thinking through a career challenge or ethical dilemma, prefer to disconnect from their challenges and retreat into a meditative mindset.”

...These included reports of depersonalization (feeling detached from one’s mental processes or body), psychosis (loss of contact with reality) with delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech, feelings of anxiety, an increased risk of seizures, loss of appetite, and insomnia. The authors especially cautioned vulnerable people such as those with PTSD to be particularly careful when undertaking mindfulness practice. Their main point was that participants should be screened carefully for their suitability before undertaking this practice, and its teachers should be properly trained and supervised....

We do sometimes get folk coming here who've experienced psychotic breaks through practices which they should not have rushed into, with classic forms of meditation and chakra work seeming to be the most prevalent for this recently, but there have been other causes too.

More later.

Trying to ignore my emotions make things worse. I have to let it go otherwise there will be a massive explosion of feelings of anger or grief.

I am bipolar and I have been advised not to enroll in Druidry course, as it involves meditations about 'going within'. The thing is if a person already unbalanced, certain meditation exercises that require someone to have a balanced state of mind, will exacerbate the problem. There are scientists who are of the opinion that meditation has rather insignificant effect on our emotional well-being. The research has been conducted on yoga practitioners and the likes.

I guess it varies from person to person.

I was thinking about this for a few days since Nahemah's post. And it seems we have different ideas about mindfulness. For me being mindful means being present in the moment. How one can ignore his/her emotions if he's present in the moment? The same thing is with Nahemah's post. How one can escape problems while being present in the moment? It is more like people tend to misuse mindfulness rather than the problems arise from the mindfulness itself.

RockDemon wrote:I was thinking about this for a few days since Nahemah's post. And it seems we have different ideas about mindfulness. For me being mindful means being present in the moment. How one can ignore his/her emotions if he's present in the moment? The same thing is with Nahemah's post. How one can escape problems while being present in the moment? It is more like people tend to misuse mindfulness rather than the problems arise from the mindfulness itself.

With the arrival of New-Agey teachings many spiritual practices are being misused, sometimes to the point of them becoming dangerous. Desecrated was right in saying the following-

Desecrated wrote:All of this nonsense of running around in black, being evil and bad synth music is not the way to do it. People like Deepak chopra, Pat Robertson, dalai lama, oprah and others who makes millions selling "goodness" are the real black magicians.

It's not so much about controlling your emotions, as RockDemon states. When you attempt to control your emotions, you treat them as if they are solid, inherent, objects. In reality they are not, nothing is.
All phenomenon is empty. All sense of self is deluded, attachment to external phenomenon and deluded sense of self causes suffering. The way to eradicate these delusions is to see them for what they are by analysing and controlling the mind.

Mindfulness is really about connection to true mind and awareness. Untainted by any thought that grabs you. You begin to realise the emptiness of phenomenon more and more. Naturally, this makes you happier.

Daud wrote:In reality they are not, nothing is.

All phenomenon is empty. All sense of self is deluded, attachment to external phenomenon and deluded sense of self causes suffering. The way to eradicate these delusions is to see them for what they are by analysing and controlling the mind.

How can I be happy if I don't exist [tongue] ?

Napoli wrote:

Daud wrote:In reality they are not, nothing is.

All phenomenon is empty. All sense of self is deluded, attachment to external phenomenon and deluded sense of self causes suffering. The way to eradicate these delusions is to see them for what they are by analysing and controlling the mind.

How can I be happy if I don't exist [tongue] ?

reach out to a friend except the little things to have a say in your life....

Napoli wrote: I am bipolar and I have been advised not to enroll in Druidry course, as it involves meditations about 'going within'.

My parents went to a seminar on mindfulness just a month or so ago and the person said for bipolar "mindfulness walking" is best and that usually meditation doesn't work. The reasoning is that the brain of a bipolar is too fast but I find my brain is pretty damn fast at times.

I have schizophrenia and I use meditation and mindfulness to control it without drugs or supplements. I am kind of unique. Never met anybody like me except on this forum who has the illness and can pull it off.