Original post: earthwalk
If this was discussed in another thread could you please direct me there? I know that ka and ba look different on egyptian paintings. so there's must have been some difference. But really, is there any difference between ka and ba ? what is the difference ? did egyptians believed that people have two souls? do egyptologists actually know ? and when you perform ancient egyptian magick ? Thanks a lot.
any difference between ka and ba ?
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Original post: LdyAtavist
There are dozens of articles and even full length books dedicated to this subject.
In short:
Ka = Life force/Will
Ba = That which makes up your personality/individuality ( true self)
Ka + Ba = Akh
it takes both the Ka and the Ba to become the Akh
for magic however you really ought not forget the Ren and Shwt
This is all really a great over-simplification of the subject, but the resources are out there - any basic introductory academic text on Egyptology will include some basic information on these things. For further specialized works on the subject look up articles at your local university library.
There are dozens of articles and even full length books dedicated to this subject.
In short:
Ka = Life force/Will
Ba = That which makes up your personality/individuality ( true self)
Ka + Ba = Akh
it takes both the Ka and the Ba to become the Akh
for magic however you really ought not forget the Ren and Shwt
This is all really a great over-simplification of the subject, but the resources are out there - any basic introductory academic text on Egyptology will include some basic information on these things. For further specialized works on the subject look up articles at your local university library.
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Original post: Winnipeg1919
There is a great deal of difference between them, depending on the period that you look at. Lady Atavist is correct in that they combine to form the Akh. Generally the Ka is to piece that returns to the body and needs physical or Magickal nourishment at the physical body. The Ba flies off to be judged.
Below is a list of the various pieces of a person according to the Egyptians. You will find some different spellings for the same thing since there are a number of different ways to transliterate the ancient Egytian names.
Kha - physical body, rupa.
Ren - name.
Khaibit - etheric shadow, prana.
Ka - desire, emotional body, kama.
Ba - higher mind, soul, manas.
Ab - heart, lower mind, manas.
Khu - spirit, buddhi.
Khabs - divine body, atma.
Akh - higher intelligents.
Sahu - oversoul.
Sekhem - vital force, kundalini.
Sa - life force, akasha.
I am not sure that the list is complete. I found the Vedic equivalents in a book and I have no idea how accurate that they are since I don't work with that metaphor.
There is a great deal of difference between them, depending on the period that you look at. Lady Atavist is correct in that they combine to form the Akh. Generally the Ka is to piece that returns to the body and needs physical or Magickal nourishment at the physical body. The Ba flies off to be judged.
Below is a list of the various pieces of a person according to the Egyptians. You will find some different spellings for the same thing since there are a number of different ways to transliterate the ancient Egytian names.
Kha - physical body, rupa.
Ren - name.
Khaibit - etheric shadow, prana.
Ka - desire, emotional body, kama.
Ba - higher mind, soul, manas.
Ab - heart, lower mind, manas.
Khu - spirit, buddhi.
Khabs - divine body, atma.
Akh - higher intelligents.
Sahu - oversoul.
Sekhem - vital force, kundalini.
Sa - life force, akasha.
I am not sure that the list is complete. I found the Vedic equivalents in a book and I have no idea how accurate that they are since I don't work with that metaphor.
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Original post: DocHolliday
Better information on the Kemetic view of the soul:
http://touregypt.net/magazine/mag05012001/magf3.htm
http://www.egyptvoyager.com/articles_li ... ept_01.htm
http://www.philae.nu/akhet/KaBa.html
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/n ... inger.html
Better information on the Kemetic view of the soul:
http://touregypt.net/magazine/mag05012001/magf3.htm
http://www.egyptvoyager.com/articles_li ... ept_01.htm
http://www.philae.nu/akhet/KaBa.html
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/n ... inger.html
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Original post: earthwalk
I will read the links, thank you !
I will read the links, thank you !
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Original post: GeNoCyDe
Wonderful thread!
Also look up the bianary soul thoery on google.
Along the same lines has anyone tried centering both Ba and Ka at once yet?
Wonderful thread!
Also look up the bianary soul thoery on google.
Along the same lines has anyone tried centering both Ba and Ka at once yet?
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Original post: Winnipeg1919
The Coven that I serve has been working some of the Egyptian rituals dealing with Ka and Ba for some time. We have had differing levels of success but have quite enjoyed the experience.
The Coven that I serve has been working some of the Egyptian rituals dealing with Ka and Ba for some time. We have had differing levels of success but have quite enjoyed the experience.
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Original post: WindigoXXVIII
ka is also a kind of double, made of breath.
ba is the human headed bird that separates from body also but hangs around it.
by the way, does anyone know what ancient egyptians thought of the brain?
ka is also a kind of double, made of breath.
ba is the human headed bird that separates from body also but hangs around it.
by the way, does anyone know what ancient egyptians thought of the brain?
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Original post: Winnipeg1919
In Egypt the brain was not regarded as important. During embalming, it was removed in pieces and discarded.
In Egypt the brain was not regarded as important. During embalming, it was removed in pieces and discarded.
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Original post: PaulS
I thought the brain was not discarded during the mummification process. It was mummified separately and placed in one of seven (?) jars that contained the vital organs. These jars were then buried with the mummy.
PaulS
I thought the brain was not discarded during the mummification process. It was mummified separately and placed in one of seven (?) jars that contained the vital organs. These jars were then buried with the mummy.
PaulS
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Original post: DocHolliday
The brain, IIRC, is one of the items placed in the canopic jars, as Paul has stated.
The brain, IIRC, is one of the items placed in the canopic jars, as Paul has stated.
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Original post: maddkhan
i like the ka+ba=akh
that is the true way as x+y=z in this demension and next r bound by it too....
but ba is like perspective/existance ....a way to localize ur ka into a singleform...or esle ur more like a force than a akh......mages of eygpt knew all about the formulas of the demensions and there relationships....
i like the ka+ba=akh
that is the true way as x+y=z in this demension and next r bound by it too....
but ba is like perspective/existance ....a way to localize ur ka into a singleform...or esle ur more like a force than a akh......mages of eygpt knew all about the formulas of the demensions and there relationships....
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Original post: nebhotep
hi
it is physically impossible that the brainw as embalmed as it was actually mashed inside the skull and a bone up the nose was broken for the brain liquid to flow out, how do you mummify a liquid? there are only 4 canopic jars each represnting the four sons of horus, i wont repeat the details about Ka and Ba, everyone has done a good job there. may i ask Winipeg 1919 what that coven have been doing with Ka and Ba? egyptian magic was performed for many reasons and on many occasions all levels of society had access to magic tho there were different levels. i am doing a university dissertation on egyptian magic so feel free to ask me any questions you have and ill try to answer them.
nebhotep
hi
it is physically impossible that the brainw as embalmed as it was actually mashed inside the skull and a bone up the nose was broken for the brain liquid to flow out, how do you mummify a liquid? there are only 4 canopic jars each represnting the four sons of horus, i wont repeat the details about Ka and Ba, everyone has done a good job there. may i ask Winipeg 1919 what that coven have been doing with Ka and Ba? egyptian magic was performed for many reasons and on many occasions all levels of society had access to magic tho there were different levels. i am doing a university dissertation on egyptian magic so feel free to ask me any questions you have and ill try to answer them.
nebhotep
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Original post: PaulS
The brain was removed through the nasal passages with a series of hooks. It was the first of the organs to be removed according to the Smithsonian Institute office of Anthropology outreach. They also say the organ was stored along with the other organs in "canopic jars".
There is a team that tried to duplicate the process and ended up liquifying the brain to get it out - but the Egyptians were more skilled and patient than that team.
PaulS
The brain was removed through the nasal passages with a series of hooks. It was the first of the organs to be removed according to the Smithsonian Institute office of Anthropology outreach. They also say the organ was stored along with the other organs in "canopic jars".
There is a team that tried to duplicate the process and ended up liquifying the brain to get it out - but the Egyptians were more skilled and patient than that team.
PaulS
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Original post: Winnipeg1919
[QUOTE=nebhotep]hi
it is physically impossible that the brainw as embalmed as it was actually mashed inside the skull and a bone up the nose was broken for the brain liquid to flow out, how do you mummify a liquid? there are only 4 canopic jars each represnting the four sons of horus, i wont repeat the details about Ka and Ba, everyone has done a good job there. may i ask Winnipeg 1919 what that coven have been doing with Ka and Ba? egyptian magic was performed for many reasons and on many occasions all levels of society had access to magic tho there were different levels. i am doing a university dissertation on egyptian magic so feel free to ask me any questions you have and ill try to answer them.
nebhotep[/QUOTE]
The Coven that I serve studies and practices a number of different Magickal metaphors - Norse, Celtic, Egyptian, Qabala, and aspects of Golden Dawn. We attempt to practice without mixing the metaphors, as many modern Wiccans do. We primarily work in the realm of Theurgy.
Our exploration of Egyptian forms is largely based on my personal interest and study of the field. My first mystic experience occurred a number of years ago when I was posted in Cairo. A visit to Giza and I was sparked by a tour through the Great Pyramid. I have been studying available source material and commentaries every since.
The Coven has been practicing a number of rituals based on parts of the Pert em Hru as tools for connecting with the Divine.
One of the things that I like about Egyptian Magick is the exercise. Multiple invocations of godforms in a single ritual is a great stretch of anyone's abilities.
I also find the large amount of Masonic sounding phrasing intriguing. I have given a number of lectures in my Lodge on the subject.
[QUOTE=nebhotep]hi
it is physically impossible that the brainw as embalmed as it was actually mashed inside the skull and a bone up the nose was broken for the brain liquid to flow out, how do you mummify a liquid? there are only 4 canopic jars each represnting the four sons of horus, i wont repeat the details about Ka and Ba, everyone has done a good job there. may i ask Winnipeg 1919 what that coven have been doing with Ka and Ba? egyptian magic was performed for many reasons and on many occasions all levels of society had access to magic tho there were different levels. i am doing a university dissertation on egyptian magic so feel free to ask me any questions you have and ill try to answer them.
nebhotep[/QUOTE]
The Coven that I serve studies and practices a number of different Magickal metaphors - Norse, Celtic, Egyptian, Qabala, and aspects of Golden Dawn. We attempt to practice without mixing the metaphors, as many modern Wiccans do. We primarily work in the realm of Theurgy.
Our exploration of Egyptian forms is largely based on my personal interest and study of the field. My first mystic experience occurred a number of years ago when I was posted in Cairo. A visit to Giza and I was sparked by a tour through the Great Pyramid. I have been studying available source material and commentaries every since.
The Coven has been practicing a number of rituals based on parts of the Pert em Hru as tools for connecting with the Divine.
One of the things that I like about Egyptian Magick is the exercise. Multiple invocations of godforms in a single ritual is a great stretch of anyone's abilities.
I also find the large amount of Masonic sounding phrasing intriguing. I have given a number of lectures in my Lodge on the subject.
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Original post: nebhotep
hi
ok not sure i have heard of that paticular ritual, i may have but i cant be sure, what exactly do you need the ka and bad for?
nebhotep
hi
ok not sure i have heard of that paticular ritual, i may have but i cant be sure, what exactly do you need the ka and bad for?
nebhotep
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Original post: maddkhan
bad???....ba?
theres 2 ka etc...but i think those are names for parts of a whole person../like an element....
what do u need a personality for?....but i believe some of those aspects can be used as tools for magic on ur eternal ka/soul energy......i always hear this that about ka joing ba in the afterlife....well i think that means the ba can hold your ka ...so u return or see as a person or ur ba/perspective may end up like a ka/force ....just out there....dont know ...still learning..lol.
bad???....ba?
theres 2 ka etc...but i think those are names for parts of a whole person../like an element....
what do u need a personality for?....but i believe some of those aspects can be used as tools for magic on ur eternal ka/soul energy......i always hear this that about ka joing ba in the afterlife....well i think that means the ba can hold your ka ...so u return or see as a person or ur ba/perspective may end up like a ka/force ....just out there....dont know ...still learning..lol.
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Original post: kaaba
An interesting thing is the symbol for Ka, is two upraised arms. In my studies, the Ka is the immortal part of the soul, while the Ba holds the individual "mortal" personality of the soul. So going back to the hieroglyph, I once read somewhere that the Egyptians believed giving a hug was a kind of magickal act, or a great energy exchange between two souls, hence the glyph for Ka. I'm greatly paraphrising this info, and if someone can elucidate, it'd be much appreciated.
Don't forget KaaBa means holy place, or shrine. I'm not sure if that comes from Egyptian or not, but it seems logical!
*grins*
An interesting thing is the symbol for Ka, is two upraised arms. In my studies, the Ka is the immortal part of the soul, while the Ba holds the individual "mortal" personality of the soul. So going back to the hieroglyph, I once read somewhere that the Egyptians believed giving a hug was a kind of magickal act, or a great energy exchange between two souls, hence the glyph for Ka. I'm greatly paraphrising this info, and if someone can elucidate, it'd be much appreciated.
Don't forget KaaBa means holy place, or shrine. I'm not sure if that comes from Egyptian or not, but it seems logical!
*grins*
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Original post: kalki
the ba is in the ka but the ka is not in the ba?
Was it Crowley who said that?
the personality/ego is in the soul but the soul is not in the personality?
the ba is in the ka but the ka is not in the ba?
Was it Crowley who said that?
the personality/ego is in the soul but the soul is not in the personality?
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Original post: Hairetikos
[QUOTE=kalki]the ba is in the ka but the ka is not in the ba?
Was it Crowley who said that?
the personality/ego is in the soul but the soul is not in the personality?[/QUOTE] Crowley's Book of the Law says: "The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs."
Khabs apparently means "light" and Khu is supposedly the soul or spirit of a person.
[QUOTE=kalki]the ba is in the ka but the ka is not in the ba?
Was it Crowley who said that?
the personality/ego is in the soul but the soul is not in the personality?[/QUOTE] Crowley's Book of the Law says: "The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs."
Khabs apparently means "light" and Khu is supposedly the soul or spirit of a person.
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Original post: earthwalk
thank you so much for your helpful posts. I've read and surfed, but I can't make sense of it. My fault, and I'm kind Golden Dawn, western biased. To me it looks Egyptians confused the various parts of the soul:evil: . No, it must be me the confused one. GD, kabala, are, uh, precise stuff. It has system
, it has a scheme
. The spheres on the tree are defined. You know where you stand, or at least where you're supposed to stand
. When it comes to Egyptian stuff, totally fascinating, that's why I want to know more about it, but it's all confusing. What's the ka doing? And the Ba? and the rest? What's what we call soul? spirit? etheric body? astral body? oobe? neither? Did Egyptian had some kind of system:evil: :evil: ?
Am i trying to fit squares in circles:roll: ? How the heck the GD guys thought they could assign Egyptian stuff to each sphere on the tree:evil: ? I guess that's why some said not to mix GD and Egyptian. Looks as if Egyptians added new stuff all the time without making it fit with what they already had:evil: . I'm sorry for the outburst.... :oops:
thank you so much for your helpful posts. I've read and surfed, but I can't make sense of it. My fault, and I'm kind Golden Dawn, western biased. To me it looks Egyptians confused the various parts of the soul:evil: . No, it must be me the confused one. GD, kabala, are, uh, precise stuff. It has system
, it has a scheme
. The spheres on the tree are defined. You know where you stand, or at least where you're supposed to stand
. When it comes to Egyptian stuff, totally fascinating, that's why I want to know more about it, but it's all confusing. What's the ka doing? And the Ba? and the rest? What's what we call soul? spirit? etheric body? astral body? oobe? neither? Did Egyptian had some kind of system:evil: :evil: ? Am i trying to fit squares in circles:roll: ? How the heck the GD guys thought they could assign Egyptian stuff to each sphere on the tree:evil: ? I guess that's why some said not to mix GD and Egyptian. Looks as if Egyptians added new stuff all the time without making it fit with what they already had:evil: . I'm sorry for the outburst.... :oops:
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Original post: Hairetikos
[QUOTE=earthwalk]When it comes to Egyptian stuff, totally fascinating, that's why I want to know more about it, but it's all confusing. What's the ka doing? And the Ba? and the rest? What's what we call soul? spirit? etheric body? astral body? oobe? neither? Did Egyptian had some kind of system:evil: :evil: ?
Am i trying to fit squares in circles:roll: ?[/QUOTE] If I may interject for a moment. I feel that perhaps you're confusing the map with the actual territory. Many different cultures and traditions have mapped spiritual ideas, concepts, techniques, "truths", etc. into a cohesive whole that made sense to them. But, THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY. To paraphrase Crowley, a cat is not acutally made of the letters "C", "A", and "T". Those letters merely represent the animal.
[QUOTE=earthwalk]When it comes to Egyptian stuff, totally fascinating, that's why I want to know more about it, but it's all confusing. What's the ka doing? And the Ba? and the rest? What's what we call soul? spirit? etheric body? astral body? oobe? neither? Did Egyptian had some kind of system:evil: :evil: ?
Am i trying to fit squares in circles:roll: ?[/QUOTE] If I may interject for a moment. I feel that perhaps you're confusing the map with the actual territory. Many different cultures and traditions have mapped spiritual ideas, concepts, techniques, "truths", etc. into a cohesive whole that made sense to them. But, THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY. To paraphrase Crowley, a cat is not acutally made of the letters "C", "A", and "T". Those letters merely represent the animal.